Other "Thinking Drafts" and writing by Keith Drury -- http://www.indwes.edu/tuesday .

SELECTED RESPONSES to E. Coli churches

   
From: Kssmucker@aol.com
To: kdrury@dorcas.indwes.edu
Subject: Re: E. coli Churches (Tuesday Column)

Good column (is that what it's called on e-mail?)  The question that comes to
mind is:  should the church that has been infected by E. Coli change names?
 I'm not sure that's the best way for God's grace to work.
Thanks.  Good to read your comments again.
Karen S. Smucker


To: Keith Drury 
What on earth does the fact that Hillary Clinton is friends with Don Tyson
have to do with E-Coli?  Or, that Tyson bought the distressed Hudson Foods
Corporation?  Or, that Hudson is both the name of a defunct car maker and 
failed food company.  Sorry, but you missed me on this one.

I give you 2 on a scale of 1-10, Hillary bashing takes away points.  Not to
mention, my cousin Harvey in Pea Ridge Arkansas has faithfully driven a
chicken truck for Hudson for a number of years.  Most corporations are made
up of people like Harvey, honest and hard working.  Hopefully, white knight
Tyson will help keep him and others employed and thus avert a disaster in
small town USA.
-- J. Doug Dawson
Broken Arrow, OK


From: "James J Lake" 

I`m so glad you are back at it again.Hope you had a marvelous summer.
I think some good names for churches today could be The Family of Faith
Church,
The Neighbor Fellowship Church, The Friendship Chapel Of Faith,      
Accountability Christian Center and The Spiritual Fitness Tabernacle.
What ever we call them is not as important as what takes place in them.
If lives are not being radically transformed by the grace of God then we
should just call it : The Country Club Cathedral of Show up and Go Through
The Motions. The Royal Family has been recently accused of being too
cold ,too slow to act and totally out of touch with people who needed to
see some compassion, emotion and warmth . The Church needs to 
throw off the E. coli of the past and step up to the plate and demonstrate
in very healthy and practical ways that she has been healed and is now
ready to bring healing to the nations. 

Thanks Keith for the spiritual health you bring to my life--Jim--


From: RJAJ4@aol.com
My first church was like that.  I went calling in the neighborhood next to
the church door-to-door, what did people remember?  A church that was so loud
with guitars and drums that they could hear blocks away.  They remembered
people marching around the church, they were offended.  I was there 10 years
later and that is still how they looked at the church even though we were a
completely different group.  We moved but kept the name.

I don't know if the name needs to be changed or the people in some cases.
 Usually you have to find a new location, get in some new people, and change
the name if the community is too small.  Yep, carnality can really be a mess
sometimes.

My present location started from some folk pulling out of a liberal Methodist
Church.  How has the church grown.   Either new folk or folk from other
communities around us.  What do the older folk in town think of us, not much.
That was over 30 years ago!  When I first moved here I met with the local
Ecu. council.  The Methodist preacher said, "oh your the ones!".  That was 20
years after and he wasn't even preaching around here at the time.  Yep
sometimes change of address, name, and in some cases people is necessary.



From:    BLK130
Mr. Drury,
Your article on E-coli in the church certainly hit a nerve with me.  This
very thing happened to my home church when I was teenager.  The church was
located in a small town (12,000) and thirty years later healing is finally
starting to happen.  Would I have wanted to be the pastor that came in after
the split and try to teach love?  I don't think so!  None of the pastors had
the slightest idea how to do reconciliation.  I doubt the subject of what to
do with "untouchable" churches is taught in seminary.   Ironically I wonder
how many "good" churches there really are?

As a teenager that experienced this abandonment I can tell you it has taken
me years to come to terms with the way the church handled the situation.
  The pastors had no idea how to minister to the hurting families.  The kids
were rejected, although they were not in any way guilty.  

Many of the churches in our area have taken holiness out of their church
descriptions.  Holiness seems to imply much work and little grace.  I don't
think John Wesley ever intended that the two be separated, they work together
in a rhymn.  However, this generation seems to want an easy religion.  More
grace, less work. 

Also, the big thing is now "mission" statements.  I was surprised at how many
have removed Jesus Christ from that statement.  Jesus is a good model but His
deity is not always accepted.  
--Barbara 


From: Bud Bence 
Change the name?  Perhaps a good idea.  But like ValuJet, the danger is that
the product is the same under a new label.  Several churches have decided to
drop their denominational moniker and become "community" churches.  But
unless the new name is backed by a new way of seeing things and doing
things, nothing has really changed.  A rose (or a stinkweed) by any other
name.....  Dr. Bud Bence    

Keith
Someone sent me your article about e-coli in churches. At the beginning,
you made several reference's to Hudson Foods. While it is true that
Hudson Foods has been sold to Tyson, pending regulator approval, perhaps
you are unaware that the plant in Nebraska was sold to IBP several days
ago, before the sale to Tyson. Hudson also, several years ago, sold some
packing plants in Wichita, Kansas. The sale of the plants allowed Hudson
to concentrate on the poultry operations, chicken and turkey. The sale
to Tyson came after many months of discussion, which began long before
the recall.

Many people in Northwest Arkansas fully support Hudson Foods in the
recall action, and feel the company has been wronged by Burger King when
Burger King canceled the beef contract. Burger King could have simply
told people that they knew how to cook hamburgers, they did in fact
several years ago have special training on how long and at what
temperature to cook a hamburger. It is interesting to note that the
e-coli scare was only in the state of Colorado.

Hudson Foods has a high standard of ethics, often doing more than is
required, because they want to do the right thing. The employees at the
closed plant in Nebraska still draw a paycheck each week at a cost, I
believe of around 300 thousand a week. How many other large companies
would do that. These employees are idled, not producing anything.

Not long ago, Red Hudson helped save a housing development by asking a
couple friends to join him in putting up a million dollars each. Red
does many things to help out the Northwest area of Arkansas, JB Hunt
truck line would not be what it is today without Red Hudson. While
Tyson, Hunt, and Walton are the names most often called the big three in
Arkansas, Hudson worked in the background.

Red Hudson is down but not out, he will move his office down the road
about a mile to a plastic's company he acquired a while back. I believe
you are mistaken when you say the Hudson name joins the Hudson
automobile in the auto graveyards. You will see the name Hudson
associated with some other product, perhaps even poultry after a
non-compete clause expires.

I am not, nor have I ever been, a Hudson employee or stockholder. The
same can be said about the other companies I have mentioned. I am,
however a resident in Northwest Arkansas, moving here from the Wichita,
Kansas area.

While living in Kansas I was an active member of a church with a long
history of problems. In fact, as an elder, I even signed a letter asking
the pastor to resign. After about a year, we began the call process. We
had no problem getting a new pastor. We were open about the past, the
church today has grown, added on to the building and is on solid ground.

In your article, you made mention of a pastor that returned a call
because of problems ten years  prior. If that was indeed the case,
perhaps that pastor might want to review his calling to be a pastor. In
ten years, most things die down, wounds are healed. Some members may
have moved away.
Yours
Arnold Nobles anobles@ipa.net


From: tsmith@Perigee.net (Tim Smith)
A delight to see that at least occasionally we will be treated to a Tuesday
gem.  The name-change won't do it if the character change doesn't also
happen.  the name you use ought to depend on the crowd you want to reach.
If you are a church for Christians (and there's nothing wrong with that)
Wesleyan or Methodist or Holiness or pentecostal or Baptist will do.  If
you're a church for sinners, the more nuetral the better.  They won't come
or stay away because of the name so the more neutral, the better.  And then
there's the "Mr. Salty" theory!
Tim



From: Dick Wynn <76511.2757@compuserve.com
Hi Keith...I am glad it is fall and you are back in the saddle.

I for sure like the concept of "community" in the name of a church. 
Sometimes what we think are distinctives are only obstacles to the
non-churched or the used-to-be- churched.
--Dick Wynn

So what do you think?

To contribute to the thinking on this issue e-mail your response to Tuesday@indwes.edu