Answers to your questions
Instead of posting a column last week I invited readers to ask me any question they wanted and I’d do my best to answer it as the following week’s column. Obviously some of these questions deserve a whole Tuesday Column so forgive my “Dear Abby” style shorter-then-deserved answers in some cases, but I’ll do my best to give a summary answer to one or two questions per person. You can read straight through catching the ones you are most interested in or you can select the category you care most about—I have divided up the questions & answers into three categories:
THANKS for caring enough to ask questions…see you next week with a
new provocative column—I think you’ll like it.
--Keith Drury
Q: 3 or 4 books that influenced you?
From:
Justin What
are the 3 or 4 books that influenced you to most and that you think every
minister should read?
(Thanks you for
writing every week. I seldom respond but I always read them.)
My Response:
Most professor-types don’t think this way. Same if you asked that
question about “3 or 4 verses in the Bible that influenced
me.” I couldn’t do
it—I’d just give you a favorite verse or a “life
verse.” However I could
give you a list of maybe a hundred
books that every minister ought to read—and their cumulative effect would be good. If you are seriously interested in this
book list let me know and I’ll post it online some time.
Q: Income
From: Jason
OK you asked
for it: How much money do you make as a professor?
My Response: After a decade
of teaching college with annual generous raises and one significant promotion
to Associate professor I am not yet making as much money as I made when I left
my denomination’s headquarters ten years ago… and I should have
been paid better even then at that job!
But that’s all smoke and mirrors, I know you want a number so you
can compare (you are probably a male writer). OK, last year in my ministerial
taxes my after-housing income from teaching was $23,249.15 but like all
ministers that’s deceptive because I also got a
housing allowance and a set-aside of a pile of cash for retirement that
doesn’t show in that figure.
But neither teaching nor writing is a good way to make a bundle of money—so
I married
Q: biggest professional bellyflopper
From:
Jason What is the biggest bellyflopper
you ever tried to pull off in the church--your biggest flop?
My
Response: I tried to get my entire denomination to turn off their TVs for a
week—a “TV fast” of sorts. After thousands of dollars and months of
campaigning I think maybe 4-5 actual churches did the campaign. Of course this was long ago and before
the secular campaign doing the same thing
was invented. (Success is 10% doing
the right thing, and 90% doing it at the right time.)
Q: Courses & Hiking
From:
Josh. Coach--what are
you teaching this year? Where are you hiking this summer?
My Response: TEACHING: LCE (Christian Ed intro); Adult Ed
(Adult discipleship); Homiletics II(preaching
coaching); Church Leadership(administration); Backpacking(Phys Ed). HIKING:
Don’t know yet. I’m
playing with a completely different kind of walk—but not ready to leak
the idea out.
Q: Stay so positive?
From: JustKara How do you stay so positive all
the time? There is so much negativity around the church (and especially online)
yet you seem to stay above it. How?
My Response: I’m not
positive actually. Staying positive
for me is like walking on water—I’m constantly sinking into the
watery gloom of negativity until I remember to refocus my eyes where they need
to be. My wife reminds me to switch
my focus (almost every night).
Q:Ever be a GS?
From: TomTom
You said you were "General
Superintendent" of this fourum--would you ever
again consider being the GS of the denomination some day?
My Response: I would not.
Q: Candidate for GS in 2006?
From: TomTom one more--you were pretty blatent about pushing Joanne Lyons for GS this fall--Will
you push for her as GS in 2006? Do you think she will be elected?
My Response: Probably. Maybe.
Q: Taking meetings again?
I heard you
were taking meetings again--are you?
My Response: Two or three each year, mostly
conferences for pastors or writers.
Q: Greatest disappointment in 60 years?
From: FreedMethodist
I just LOVED your column about being an old man so I've got an old man
question--in all your years in the ministry what has been the greatest
disappointment you faced and the greatest happiness?
My Response: My college mentor’s rejection of
the church and Christ. In my
20’s the president of my college chose me to mentor, teaching me,
correcting me, helping me, and rebuking me. And he set me up with all kinds of
breaks for a young preacher—even taking me to large Methodist camp
meetings where he was the scheduled speaker and putting me on as his substitute
in front of 1000-2000 people. I
absolutely adored him and wanted to become just like him. Then some faculty and the trustees did
him dirty and they eventually fired him as President. He was so hurt he started a journey away
from the denomination, then the church as a whole, then finally Jesus
Christ. Seldom does a day pass that
I do not recall this deep disappointment.
Q: Could you survive pastoring
a church?
If you stopped
teaching, got out of the classroom and jumped into full time ministry in a
church, how effective do you think you would be and why?
My Response: I would be
extraordinarily popular with all those under 30 but I admit I’d be very rusty
dealing with stuck-in-the-mud traditionalists. If I return to pastor a church I’d
have to take a crash course in handling traditional people. (Luckily there are lots of pastors out
there with experience in this area to mentor me.)
Q: Book royalty?
From: Chad This
sounds nosy but would you be willing to tell us how much money a person like
you (or Rick Warren) makes on the books they write?
My Response: I get about $3000 a year royalties from
my books—about a dozen of them still in print. If you are interested in becoming rich
try preaching special services not writing. I write about 18-20 hours per week for
nine months—a total of about 700 hours per year so it averages out to
about $4.25 hr. pay. But of course
for many years (when I had fewer books and still wrote 20 hours a week) it was
far less than Taco Bell® wages.
I do not write for money any more than you golf for money. Sure, some people make millions off
their golfing but most have to pay to
do what they love to do. I get some
money back for doing what I love to do—write. HOWEVER, speaking of making
millions, in one three months period recently Rick Warren got $9,000,000 (yep
that’s 9 million) in
royalties. God either loves me more
than He loves Rick, or He knows I would say far stupider things than Rick if I
were richer—so I do not have to bear his curse.
Q: Next five books?
From: -David
Drury From: 4thGeneration If you could write 5 more
books in your lifetime and you could write whatever you wanted to (and they
would be guaranteed to be published and purchased), what would you write?
My Response: I am too old to
plan that far ahead Dave. I did ten
year goals when I was pretty sure I had ten years left to actually accomplish
them. Now I am on the two year goal
plan ;-) There is however a book
that has been following me home every night for a year now. I can’t shoo it away for it sleeps
outside my bedroom each night greeting me in the morning. I’m playing with something on
“Common Ground”—what all Christians everywhere in all times
and in all places believe. As an
old man I’m interested less in the things that divide us all than the
things were we all agree—the things that make one Christian, not Wesleyan, or Baptist or Nazarene. I’m at the research stage now and
I’m still trying to chase this mangy dog away so I can do something
else. But so far it won’t
leave. So I may have to write the
book.
Q: First met your wife
From: Josh B This could
have a funny story, but what line did you use when you first met your wife, or
did she approach you?
My Response: I don’t
recall what we said when I met her, I did notice that she had a great
smile. And we worked side by side
on the school newspaper. But I
never thought of her as a “candidate” until one night coming home
from a date with another girl—and I started thinking about marriage. I called her when I got to the dorm that
night and invited her to sneak out of her dorm at 2AM to meet me. We went walking and I proposed to her
that night. She said yes and
dropped out of college to earn money for the wedding which took place that
June.
Q: Friend of Barnes
From: IWUFacultyAssociate You have
been Jim Barnes' best friend all these years. How will barnes leaving affect your role in the university?
My
Response: Perhaps I will be able to spend less time being expected to explain
and defend administration decisions and less time listening to people who hope
I’ll be a transmission line back to the President. With this extra time I plan to answer
questions from readers of my Tuesday column ;-)
Q: Christmas Present?
From: Amanda
Drury What do you want for Christmas?
And don't tell
me anything that you're planning on going out and buying for yourself on Dec.
23rd.
My Response: Something I can
take up Mt Elbert
on New Years week.
Q: General Superintendent
From: CB I've
wanted to ask you this for a long time. Have you ever regreted
turning down the election to General Superintendent in 1988?
My Response: I never have regretted it for myself and
family. Occasionally I’ve
regretted it for the church though.
Q: Personal references in preaching
From: Pastor
Mike I finally got around to reading your "column" this afternoon as
"veggie time" after a stressful morning preaching in two services.
Then I saw you didn't actually write a column but opened things up for a
Q&A. I admit that I was disappointed at first THEN as I scanned through the
actual questions I was hooked on the "reality TV" questions about
your personal life. Your readers know your opinions but they seem to be mostly
interested in all kinds of private and personal details of your life—from
how much money you make to how you met your wife. I am wondering if we as
pastors need to take this into account more and let more personal information
through in preaching and Q&A times? It was
hammered into me in homiletics to eliminate all personal references and
personal stories from preaching—but I wonder if that is wrong now in a
day of reality TV and People magazines: what do you think?
My Response: I wondered the same thing and since I am
teaching Homiletics the same way all preachers have taught it for years
(warning students to be careful of telling personal stories and personal
information that makes them the hero of all the illustrations and makes the
preaching be “about me and my family instead of God and His family”)
I am rethinking this as well but I think I’ll stick with the warning on
self-inflating bragging stories… I’ve heard too many of them in my
lifetime. I encourage students to
tell human stories however—that’s
the secret of narrative preaching.
I suggest they make heroes out of their people not themselves and when
telling personal stories on themselves make sure there are more where they fail
than come out looking like the hero of their own messages.
Q: What question should I have asked?
From: KenSchenck What question should I ask you?
My Response: You should have
asked who my favorite friend is.
Q: More about family
From: --Elaine,
Homeschool Mom Hi. Just a
note to say that I read your column almost every week as do both of my sons who
are being homeschooled. They sometimes do
reports on your writing. All three of us would like to hear more about your
family--you wife, children etc. We know all about how you think but we're interested
in who you are.
My Response: Sure, read their
descriptions here—or click at the “Who is Keith Drury”
link any time on top of my web page
Q: John Wesley & choice.
I asked this
in one of my posts about the Wesley/Calvin debate but I am still wondering
about it. If God is to prompt those who are saved then why don't
as many adults receive Christ as there are 18 and younger? Is God's
grace not as powerful to the adults or is it that adults will harden their
heart in a way like pharaoh? Thank you very much.
My
Response: It seems to me that Wesley might say that continual resistance to
God’s grace hardens a heart—even for those “who’ve
never heard” there are opportunities to respond or resist to God’s
grace. The more one resists the
less likely one will be able to respond later, thus the older we reach people
with the [explicit] gospel the greater their resistance—for they have
already resisted so often the [implicit] gospel.
Q: I think my pastor is no longer effective.
Here is a
question I've been trying to figure out myself for awhile. When you feel like
your pastor is no longer effective, or the write person to lead you church
anymore, how should you deal with that situation? Talking to others in the
church about that subject doesn't seem right, that
could lead to division. Going over their head doesn't seem right. Going to the
pastor and talking to him about it seems very weird, and I would have a
difficult time handling that situation. I keep thinking about the story with
David and Saul, and he never attacks the Lord's appointed person. My strategy
so far has just been to try and be on board with what they try to do in an
effort to promote unity, but this doesn't seem to be working. And I'm having a
difficult time when I dissagree with so much of what
they want to do as well. It seems like a lose/lose situation, and I can't find
a good biblical explanation as to how to handle it. I really hope you have some
good answers, even if they turn out to be answers that I don't like.
My Response: This is why I
prefer an honest strip-down annual review for every person in the church
including staff and senior pastor (and board members). Much of our conflict in the church is a
result of people being “nice” and not confronting others’
weaknesses and areas for improvement.
I prefer an annual vote on a pastor by the board at least and I
personally would want one from the whole church every single year—to shut
up the minority who thinks everyone else is as upset as they are, OR to remind
me I’m out of step with my people.
Without a “test” of a confidence/no confidence vote a person
like you does not know if you represent many or only a few. With a vote the pastor knows where she
stands and you laity do too—if there are only a few votes or comments
negative then you know you are out of step with the congregation and you should
quiet down or go elsewhere. With no
(real, serious) annual review the pastor is robbed of a means of feedback and
you can get the idea that the only way to make a change is to make the pastor
feel uncomfortable—which is why there is so much trouble in the
church. As for you—I’d
say push for a [real] annual review of all pastor staff and lay leadership. If
that fails I’d go church shopping/hopping and refuse to stay around and
try to make trouble to “send a signal” to the pastor. (Disclosure: 95% of all pastors disagree
with the first half of my response.)
Q: Older Christians don’t take me seriously.
Something I
always struggled with was the inferiority that is assumed of High School and
College aged students when they are part of a Church. I know that we, as being reletivly new to the faith compared to some of the elders,
are not any more intelligent--and sometimes we are less than intelligent--Than
those who are older than us. However, I often feel that when I go back home and
try voicing my opinion on something to members of the chruch,
they simply smile and say "that's nice" while assuming that I'll
outgrow my differing ideas. I guess I am asking how I should address this
problem. I don't think I am always right, nor do I wish to cause a huge
controversy in the church, I just wish for my thoughts to actually be
considered instead of passed over just because I am newer to the faith.
My Response: I’d
suggest this: Start all your
comments with “I’m a new Christian but I wonder if…”
then watch the older and more experienced Christians become more open. If that doesn’t move them to
listen more seriously ask yourself if maybe your ideas are indeed a bit kooky
the way they come out. If you
become confident your ideas are sensible and spiritual and the problem is with
all these experienced Christians you learn to put up with it until you become
experienced enough to be taken seriously, or you go church shopping/hopping to
some place where they don’t dismiss you.
Q: Person never heard of Jesus go
to heaven?
Can a person
who's never heard of Jesus go to Heaven?
My Response: I expect to see Adam,
Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob Joseph there and they not only have never heard of
Jesus but they didn’t even have the Ten Commandments or the Bible. So
I’d say a person who has never heard of Jesus can go to Heaven. Yet I’d also say no person will
get to Heaven except by Jesus, for
His death and resurrection is the only way to God—whether the person
knows it or not.
Q: Homosexuals into membership?
From: CraigMoore
If you were a pastor would you admit a practicing homosexual to
membership in your church? If so, then why, if no, then why not? I am a United
Methodist and this is currently a huge issue in our denomination.
My Response: As a pastor I
would submit to my denomination’s requirements on membership. For my denomination that means barring
people from membership who are practicing
homosexuality or adultery or child abuse (and a whole host of other
practices). I am a tad bit more
liberal than my denomination on some behavioral things but I would submit to
“the list.” If I were
more conservative than my denomination I’d still submit to their
position—which is what many conservatives do in my denomination why
really think any divorced person
should not be allowed to join the church—they gulp and take them in
because they are not joining the preacher but the denomination.
Q: Is education over-rated?
From: Glen Is
education & the ministry becoming over-rated today? Why does the Wesleyan
denomination have this expectation of their leaders to have certain educational
qualifications (dozens of classes before ordination, a certain number of years
experience, and for many, thousands of dollars in debt to do so). Another way
to ask this question, do you think it's possible we are committing the sin of
valuing education over the work of the Holy Spirit for training in the church?
And why can't local churches train lay people for
ordination/commissioning to save time and money? There seems to be a prejudice
of educated individuals over uneducated lay people in the church, as if only a
few are called to be ministers and not everyone in the Body of Christ. And so lay people feel that they aren't able to be in ministry
because they're not smart enough or qualified enough. Can you help clear
this up?
My Response: I expect my dentist to know what a root
canal is. I want my auto mechanic
to recognize a carburetor or fuel injection system. I expect my doctor to know which
symptoms indicate which sickness. And I, like most people, expect my minister
to know the Bible, theology, church history and the practical management of the
church. I think leading the
Q: Methodist Calvinist
From: Jeff
R. Loved
your articles on Wesley and Calvinism. I do believe Im
one of the last of the Methodist Calvinists. Im not
hyper Calvinist by any means but I do lean more twoard
their beliefs in most things (excluding double predestination). My dilema is I am involved with the
My Response: I’d stay
in your denomination and enrich the flavor of the stew…if they’ll
have you, that is.
Q: Church influencing voting?
From: SiarlysJenkins How can a citizen of a democratic republic
express their faith in public and political life, if they belong to a church
which has either a hierarchy, or a set of doctrines that predispose the answer
to certain practical political questions, without destroying the legal and
ethical foundations that allow citizens of different faiths to coexist under
the same set of laws?
My Response: I’d say
the citizen should carefully weigh the admonition of their church then pull the
curtain and vote their own conscience. I do think a Christian’s
obligation to God is greater than their obligation to country, but I do not
think any priest or pastor can command members how to vote. However, when my
voting is broadly out of step with all Christians as a whole I should carefully
and humbly consider my vote to be out of step and I should stay open to
instruction form the body of Christ.
(By “all Christians” here I mean all Christians all over the
world both from the past and the present.)
Q:Why do you
write these columns?
I have never
written you by email or put anything here. now that
you are doing this. I do enjoy reading your thoughts every week tho I don't respond. I print them off here at work and I
often take them home for my wife (who was raised in a monestary
like you were). I have a question that I've wondered about. Why is it that you
write every week. What is your hidden motivation or
the angle that you have? I have followed you for more then 8 years and I've
never seen you try to make money off it other than having one of your books we
could click onto buy. Does that give you enough income to keep you at it every
week? You said in an article once that you spend several hours each week witing your column--I am just wonderfin
what keeps you doing this. People aren't always nice to you. P.S. I hope you keep doing it--I just
wonder why you do this.
My Response: I write these
columns like a concert pianist practices the piano daily. My “concert” comes in the
books I write. In order to become a
better “concert writer” this is my “practice.” I sometimes do a horrible job writing
here, but by staying with consistent writing every week I gradually get a tiny
bit better—so my books have gradually gotten better too, especially this last one. Sorry for the errors you have to
put up with by peeping into my practice session—but I hope someday you
come to one of my concerts too. ;-)
Q: Is Rick Warren a windbag?
From: Ed V RE: A Second
Reformation ...And this time Purpose-Driven. Is Rick Warren becoming a windbag?
Poor Martin Luther - look at all the hassle he could have avoided, if he only
knew how to spin a few one-liners.
"It use to be about the creeds, but now
dude its all about the deeds" "I’m looking for a second
reformation. The first reformation of the church 500 years ago was about
beliefs. This one is going to be about behavior. The first one was about
creeds. This one is going to be about deeds. It is not going to be about what does the church believe, but about what is the church doing.
" Rick Warren as quoted on BeliefNet.com Your thoughts? Are the deeds of the
Catholic Church over the past 500 years considered useless b/c they weren't
performed by Baptists
My
Response: When you’re not famous (like I’m not) you can say all
kinds of inane things and nobody notices.
Once you become famous (as Rick now is) they hold you accountable for
every single word you say. Everybody says dumb things—famnous
people get quoted when they do. I
pity Rick Warren, though generally he’s been
doing a good job replacing former spokespersons for evangelicals like Jerry Falwell {shiver}
Pat Robertson {shudder} and Paul
Crouch {retch}. So I’m happy for a new spokesperson
more in the image of statesmanlike Billy Graham so generally I like Rick
Warren. However to the statement
itself, if the coming religion is “about the deeds not the creeds”
then I’m switching to Buddhism—that religion consistently produces
the best deeds. If is about the
deeds and not the resurrection of Jesus Christ—then, well, if Christ was
not raised then I see no reason to be a Christian and we ought to all go over
to Buddhism. But I do believe Jesus was crucified,
descended into death, and on the third day was raised again—and I believe
the rest of the creed as well. Indeed the creeds are the core of my
faith—I would even put them ahead of
my “personal relationship” with Christ at my age—for I
have met too many folk who claim a “personal relationship with
Christ” yet reject Christ’s virgin birth, his resurrection and His
divinity. With whom is their
personal relationship? Thus I say
that in the future “It will be more
about the creeds dude!”
Q: Divorce the Body?
FROM: Graham. I
loved your article about the Body of Christ. I've read it and re-read it and
even let my wife read it. She loved it as well. It was such an encouragement to
both of us. However, I do have some questions about serving the Body of Christ.
Did you ever feel like you wanted to stop serving the Body of Christ?
Did you ever feel like you wanted to Divorce the Body? As I think
through these questions I realize that I was actually never married to the
church. The church is not my bride but Christ's. I'm just called to serve
Christ's Bride. But, what if I get tired of serving the Bride? What if she's gotton on my last nerve for the last time? Can I claim
victory in the verse that says, "What you do for the least of these you do
unto me?" Could it be that the Bride is homeless and poor? Could it be
that the bride of Christ is weak and tired and just really in a slump. Kind of
like we all are spiritually? Could the church be who Christ was calling
"the least of these." Often we think of homeless people or inmates
being the "least of these." But, sometimes I feel as though the
Church doesn't deserve my love or service? But, my calling has not changed. I
still feel called to preach. I just don't want to mess all the critical and
hypocritical people in the body of Christ. Perhaps these people only exist in
traditional churches? Have you
ever thought these things?
My
Response: I certainly have. Nice
touch to your twist here—I like it.
Q: “This is what being a Christian is all about”
From: the cubiclereverend www.thecubiclereverend.blogspot.com I always hear preachers talk about
“this is what being a christian is all
about…”. And it varies from person to person. What would you
consider “this is what being a Christian is all about?”
My Response: I’d say,
“Faith in Jesus Christ that results in assembling with the
Q: Judas & free will
From: Mark
Schnell As Wesleyans we love the idea of free will.
What do you do with Judas? Jesus seemed to be saying he was born to be doomed.
How can we reconcile that with free will?
My Response: I believe Judas could have chosen righteousness just
like I believe Jesus could have
chosen to sin. However I do admit that the New Testament also has a strong
strain of what almost everyone in all religions at the time believed—that
the gods controlled the destiny of everything and we are mere pawns in the
god’s game. I do not think
Jesus had this view, but I do think it was the prevailing view of the world at
the time and the view of almost all the people including many first century
Jews. Jesus however does not always
adhere to this party line and seems to allow humans the power of choosing to do
right or wrong without being controlled by fate. Was Judas destined to go to hell? No.
Was he “from the beginning” not one of the twelve? The apostle John said yes. Could be that his repeated resistance to
Christ and his regular stealing from the treasury had hardened him a long time
before so that his eventual betrayal of Christ was only the logical end to his
trajectory from the beginning? (see Steinbeck’s East of Eden for the real answer to this
question… timshel).
Q: Baptism with the Spirit & Holiness
From: john mark
poling It seems to me
that the main difference between the old holiness movement and the Wynkoop influenced crowd centers around the baptism of the
Spirit. My generation viewed entire sanctification as a post conversion
experience. We believed this is what happened to the 120 at Pentecost. The
"new generation" people seem to see entire sanctification, if they
see it at all, as more a psychological phenomena, as they equate the baptism of
the Spirit with conversion (i.e. the 120 were not fully converted until
Pentecost). If this is true, what are the real implications for this, as far as
convincing the many skeptics that fill our pews today? Does it make any
difference as to which camp is right, as long as people see the need? In your
view, what are the implications of this for a theology of the church? If
the outpouring of the Spirit was what birthed the church at Pentecost, and
provided unity where division, jealousy and blind ambition had been the order
of the day, how important is our emphasis, or lack of it, on the doctrines of
the Spirit today?
My
Response: I lean toward the “Pentecostal holiness” position but I
know that in that inclination I depart from John Wesley and most of my
colleagues (though perhaps not Chris Bounds?) and I am thus identifying more
with Phoebe Palmer and Melvin Deiter. I would like more teaching on the
Spirit’s work from the book of Acts and not all of it from Paul’s
epistles (though I think one can make a better case for a holy life above sin
from Paul—as Ken Schenck constantly proves). I also admit that when I
identify with the American holiness movement I set myself up for the charge of
bad exegesis to which I can only this reply that sometimes good experience
comes from bad exegesis (and sadly visa
versa).
Q: I committed adultery—restoration when?
From: NoName I was a minister who committed adultery in 1997. I
was expelled from my church and the ministry when I got caught. I repented,
asked forgiveness from my wife and got a "secular" job in business.
I've been attending church Sunday morning and Sunday night ever since and our
family has now recovered more than I could have even dreamed of. My church
will not restore a mnister who has been
unfaithful-ever. Do you think they are right?
My
Response: I think a church can do whatever it wants to do in these
cases—we “have the keys.” As for me personally I’d restore a
fallen minister to him or herself and the family first—for about 2-3-4 years maybe.
Then I’d begin restoring them to the ministry for the next 2-3-4
years. My denomination however has
some offenses for which they never restore a minister including things like
sequential and habitual adultery or sexual abuse of a minor.
Q: Preachers & absolute truth
From: Shawn I am currently writing a
paper for my sociology class at college. My hypothesis is: Most modern day
preachers don't preach an absolute truth. What are your views on this subject?
Thanks
My Response: It depends on
what you (or Josh McDowell or anyone else) means by “absolute
truth.” Preachers have always
made room for gray areas which are covered by “personal convictions.” The idea of “personal
convictions” is that there are some areas where the church does not speak
but allows individuals to determine if the thing is wrong or right.. Thus, for one
person a thing might be sin while for another it may be something they could do
without any guilt or condemnation from themselves or God. This looks a whale of
a lot like “preachers aren’t preaching absolute truth.” But
if the charge is true then we’ve got to accuse
Q: Liturgical prayer
From:
Jacob Considering
Christianity's history, extemporaneous prayer is a fairly "new"
practice. What about liturgical prayer? What place does liturgical prayer have
in the contemporary assemblies of the Chruch and in
the personal lives of believers?
My
Response: I think we should prepare to preach to men and women and also prepare
to pray to the Lord God of the Universe.
I do not like passion-less prayers prayed extemporaneously or
written. Extemporaneous praying
seems to provide for greater passion, but it also provides for greater
scatterbrain-ness and opportunities to make
announcements or review the message to God. Prepared prayers can lose their
passion but they allow for greater emphasis on God and God’s concerns. I
am not bothered by either kind of prayer so much as the total lack of taking prayer seriously in worship. Prayer is the single most central
element of worship and appeared before music, preaching, Scripture, and even
sacrifice. Yet in modern worship it
is primarily used as a segue-way or is done in such an unprepared perfunctory
manner. It is like gathering to
have a birthday party and saying almost nothing to the person we are honoring. So, back to your
“liturgical prayer” question. In “high church” liturgy we
are programmed to pray 6-8-10 times for as much as 20% of the worship
service. Perhaps this is why there
is a growing interest in this style of worship among students?
Q: Mean to
be a Wesleyan? Deep down
From: JohnLDrury
What does it mean to be a Wesleyan? Deep down,
beyond the bumper stickers and even the finer points of doctrine, what is the
spirit or essence of the Wesleyan tradition?
My Response: A preoccupation
with Christ that leads to evangelism, discipleship and social justice. But I am far more interested in what you’d say about this John.
For your answer will actually form what Wesleyans become not just what we ought
to be.
Q: Selecting judges
Since we are
looking at picking a new justice and I've seen how justice in the church works as
have most folks within and outside of the church, would you please address the
following: Based solely on
Scripture, what are the qualifications of judges. I found in the NT where it
talks about rulers and I've read judges where the kings went before God on
behalf of the people and how after the judges got them out and on the right
track, the people disobeyed God and worshipped other Gods and well, you know.
And, I've read about God as a judge in the here and the hereafter. If you can't tell, I'd like a paper
written on this one Dr. Drury. It will be due in two weeks. Grammar and
punctuation will count as 20% and content will count as 80%. Make it your own
work with quotes only!
My Response: Please can I
have an extension—I’m trusting you to be a
really kind Christian on this. You
see I was busy doing ministry all weekend and last night when I got back to
campus and started this assignment at 3AM my computer crashed, and then my
room-mate’s computer crashed as well—will you have mercy on me?
(Seriously, if a President approached judge-selection based on Scriptural
criterion I suppose he would go for character
and wisdom and thus there would be no “litmus tests” at all on
issues. Interesting
question!)
Q: Boomers passing baton
H. My question for next week's column is
this.... Why is evangelical Christianity so bad at passing the baton? I don't
see any new leaders emerging that are young, vibrant, and being mentored by
many faithful men and women who are over 60. Folks like Bill Bright, Billy Graham,
etc. are a dying breed. Why are they not raising up a new generation of
leaders? It seems the only new thinkers/leaders are the children of these
former leaders. Aren't they willing to make room at the table? Being one of
your former students, I know that you make it a priority, but are others? What
do they have to lose by reaching outside themselves to us younger Christians? I
say this as a 28 year old female pastor who has had several difficult ministry
situations. I needed guidance, support, and encouragement from our elder
leaders. When I asked for spiritual direction I got blank stares or at best
"You just have to figure these things out for yourself." Few leaders
step up to the challenge. I say this also because my husband and I have spent
time counseling pastors older than we are with these same issues. A generation
of young pastors and Christians need the wisdom, concern, and guidance. Any thoughts?
My
Response: You have uncovered the single greatest sin of the boomer
generation. Boomers are in deep
doo doo in the coming
decade. Boomers have been unable as
a generation to successfully pass the test of Erik Erikson's seventh stage (Generativity
versus stagnation) and the time to take this test will soon be gone. This means boomers have looming ahead of
them another failure at the eighth stage (Integrity versus despair) so
that the entire generation is liable to become a bunch of self-centered old men
and women full of doubt, gloom and despair. You will not want to pastor this
crowd when they are the senior citizens and you will not want to visit them un nursing homes. BUT there’s still time—the
seventh stage window is still open and the test can still be passed and our
generation can then also pass the eighth stage. You would be doing boomers a great
service if you forced them to invest
in you.
Q: Women’s hair?
What is your
position on the issue of women's hair (1 Cor. 11,
etc.)?
My Response: If I were living
in the first century I’d expect women to dress and behave the way women
are expected to behave in the first century. Since I am not living then I have the
big headache of deciding how these things given to real people in real churches
in the real first century apply today. This is the work of the whole church and
not me personally—we the church have the “keys to the
kingdom” and we were given them by Jesus Christ Himself. Do we “bind” these
things today or “loose” them?
The church must decide.
Jesus did not give me the keys.
He did not give them to you either.
He gave them to us. So how
does the church decide what things we “bind and loose?” Good question—stay
tuned—perhaps I’ll write on “binding and losing” and
the “keys to the kingdom” this next week.
Q: Ransom theory of atonement
From: PastorJ I
was thinking about the ransom theory of the atonement. One concept there is
that a ransom was paid in order to set us free from sin. The implication often
is that our Father and Christ paid Satan the ransom. My question is: Is it
possible that the idea of ransom is really about the cost of a war instead of
paying the usurper or the kidnapper? For instance ( and
this may not be total correct) the
My
Response: Ah, I’ll have to
get back to you on this one. Maybe
ask John Drury this one—it is over my head.
Q: Enact change
What is the
best way to lovingly enact change in a congregation that has been in a
ritualistic rut for several decades?
My Response: Make a list of
100 things that need changing then put it away and wait for a year changing
nothing. In the second year get the
list out and revise it (you will have changed your mind on some) then take a
year to make ten of those changes.
The next year get the list out again and revise it again—always
keeping 100 things on the list—then make another 10% and so forth. Of course there is a whole course on
change management in churches—but this is my best single thought on it.
Q: Preach on Riots
From: PastorKarl
Assume you are a pastor and had to preach this Sunday. And assume that
you decided to work into your message something current, say the riots in
My
Response: Perhaps a sermon on youth… maybe something about passing the
baton to the next generation and not selfishly hogging everything for the older
generation, the whiter generation, or the English speaking crowd letting the
younger folk become “unemployed” in the church feeling
disenfranchised and believing it is not even their own church any more?
Q: Grace and law
From: Dakota
Kid This
is a question that I have been struggling with. I cannot get my head around it.
After my dad was killed it took me several years to come back to God. In the
process of my return it was facilitated by me focusing on cause and effect of
life and sin. The last several months God has reintroduced the idea of
grace. Now I believe God extends
His grace to all giving them the chance to accept it. But part of the problem I
am having with grace is where is the balance of grace and the law (knowing that
Christ didn't come to negate the law but to fulfill the law). I am more
comfortable with the law and it is well known that I am the "first one
through the door" when it comes to a friend in need. But I cannot imagine,
let alone have the desire to go into the jail to witness to a prisoner because
I have cleaned up so many messes that those who end up there have perpreated on people. I have made the statement that I
am the only man that would arrest his own grandma, if that helps explain where
I have been. Also, I am (or was a PK
raised in the
My
Response: Oh boy this is deeper
than I can deal with here. But in a
short “dear Abby” type response I’d say find some human being who are “full of grace” and get under
their influence so much so that you finally have to say that if a human can
be so grace-full then how much more full of grace God must be. And one more thing…don’t have children until you work this out a bit
more. (and if you already had them work it out faster.)
Q: Homosexual ‘Christian’
Can you explain
how a homosexual "christian" community can
look directly at the law of God and still say that what they are doing is OK
with God? Would it be better for them to say, that Scripture says it is wrong
but I've chosen to live that way anyway. Reason: How does God handle direct
rejection of His word and how does he deal with folks who receive His body and
blood while rejecting His truth in the here and now and in eternity? Can you also relate this question to the
clean/uncleanness talked about in the O.T. as related to sacrifices.
Also, did God
impute sin in the OT and for the general population,
was God only capable of imputing righteousness in the NT?
My Response: Woah! lots of questions… I can not answer how Christian
groups look into the Bible and justify their own deeds but I know it is done
habitually by Christians all the time—what the people say they are doing
is “interpreting” Scripture.
To the next question I’d say God handles disobedient people with
grace for a time (too long for me) then he slams them to the mat (too hard for
me). At first he appears to be too
lenient and liberal then later he appears too strict and vengeful. (I cannot relate it to the uncleanness
very well but Ken Schenck has done that well.)
Q:
Wholeness & healing &
Guest: Wholeness, healing, etc. are
topics of great interest in society today. By definition from Scripture, what
is wholeness and healing? Is wholeness and healing experienced in the sensual
realm as explained in Qubalistic Healing where you
somehow channel the energy in your body or you even hear terms like balance
through inclusion--is there such a thing as balance through inclusion in
Christianity? How do you achieve wholeness according to Scripture? Dr. Drury,
can you please talk like an average person and not a college professor?
My
Response: Holy Smoke—I
can’t even figure out the question very good—you’ll have to
ask someone smarter than I. Qubalistic Healing?
What’s that? Sorry I
don’t know.
Q: Romans question
Can you explain
this to me:
What I want to do -- I allow
not/consider wrong
That I would do -- I don't do What I
hate -- That I do So,
its not me, its sin living in me
Can you put
that in terms an alcoholic, drug addict, sex addict, someone who needs anger
management, someone with a habit they want to break, etc. can understand?
My Response: Using a common rhetorical device Paul is
here taking on the voice of an unbeliever—a person sold to sin and
unsaved… that person cannot
do the right they want to do and cannot stop doing the wrong they know is
wrong—they are sold to sin—slaves of sin. Many Christians like to make this about
believers who are of two minds (Wesleyans especially have liked doing this in
the past) but it is an incorrect understanding and jerks Paul away from being
consistent. A person sold to sin who habitually practices disobedience is
simply unredeemed in Paul’s way of thinking—they do not need
sanctified, they need saved.
Q: Older
From: T_G_
Nothing too deep...just something I have been thinking through over last few
weeks... I am recently reminded that it is not all about "sin
management" but rather an inside out change. I think we get the
transformation through spiritual disciplines. How do we implement spiritual
disciplines without making it another checklist? It does not appear to me that
many churches are helping in the spiritual formation aspect of life although I
saw your son’s article with some examples. 2) You seem to poke a bit at modern
Wesleyans reading choices, of which I have all in
process or have read, what would you recommend reading that is older, much
older, that would give us a perspective beyond our generation?
My Response: I’d
suggest reading Wesley, Calvin, Luther, Augustine, all the mystics etc. –anybody
whose book is still in print 200 years after they died. As for me I try to
sandwich lasting books with “temporary” books—do you really
think Barna’s Revolution will be around in 100 years let alone outlast Frog in the Kettle? So I try to sandwich
the lasting things with the temporary ones which of course we need to know
about.
Q. Barna’s Revolution
From: CP: What
do you think of Barna’s new book Revolution?
My Response: The covers are
way too far apart.
Q: Revealtion question.
From: dnephew
I've been feeling apocalyptic lately. Two solicitations for some mod
Drury biblical commentary:
1) In Rev. 5:4 why does Mr. Revelator start bawling when no one is found
who could open the book or break its seals? Your friend Mr. Wesley seems to
suggest that he was something of a big-hearted cry-baby. Mr. Clarke just thinks
that inquiring minds want to know, and if they can't, they cry. A more
contemporary Wesleyan scholar suggests that Mr. Revelator was really worried about
how things would turn out for the troubled churches in
My Response: I think nobody
know why either women or the Revelator cry. Determining what John meant in this book
is only guessing and anyone who thinks God has told him what it really means
needs counseling—we can only guess. (and to you
I’m uncle Keith, please)
Q: Another Revealtion
question.
2) In Rev. 8:1
why is there silence in heaven for 1/2 an hour after the breaking of the
seventh seal? Mr. Clark calls it a "mere metaphor." Mr. Wesley thinks
the silence is only preparation for the sounding of the trumpets. Mr. Modern
scholar (i.e. Jonny Stanley) takes special care not to mention it all--kind of
like the old saying, "if the bible commentator doesn't comment on the
silence, did it really get quiet." What say you Coach Drury? (are you one of those leadership coaches I've read about?)
My Response: I think
interpreting Revelation is like interpreting a painting—it has all kinds
of interpretations depending on your point of view and the
“glasses” you wear as you read it. The only way to know what it really
meant is to ask the original painter—and sometimes even having done that
one might argue there are meanings in a painting that the original painter did
even not know about. I am not
dismissing your interest in revelation, just in any attempt to determine for sure what much of it means. I have taught through Revelation
several times and the people seldom like it—because they want a chart or
a schedule—which if I had done I would certainly be selling far more
books (Jerry Jenkins actually is a great writer no matter what you think of his
Left behind. When I teach
Revelation I make us find the things we’re supposed to do—how
we’re suppose to live—in it and that’s not much fun. (But I admit I do like to study the
picture Jesus in Revelation—woah!!! they don’t write Jesus-is-my-boyfriend songs
about that Jesus! Frankly people don’t the Jesus of
Revelation… said one female student years ago, “He reminds me of
God the father and I never liked God as much as Jesus.” (I did not make that up.)
Q: Pastors day off
& Saturday
FROM: Tayburn I ask this with hesitation. I do not intend it to
be disrespectful but did want to know.
How come pastors are so unwilling to schedule a church meeting on their
"day off", (usually Monday) when that is precisely what they ask us
to do when we meet on Saturdays? Is there some unwritten code that forbids a
meeting to happen. From a layman's perspective, it gets a
bit frustrating when it may be the only day that works for everyone but the
pastor.
My Response: This is the best reason I know for Pastors taking Saturday off. If I were a lay person I think I’d say to the pastor next time he or she called a Saturday meeting refusing to meet on their day off, Hey pastor, “How come you are so unwilling to schedule a church meeting on your "day off" when that is precisely what you are asking me do when we meet on Saturday?” I bet you’ll get a good answer. People who fear “being disrespectful” of their pastor who do not honestly say things like this cut their pastor off from honest communication.
Q: What is IWU like
From: Concerned
Mom I've read your Tuesday
Column off and on for several years. My daughter is a Junior
and starting to decide on which college to attend. She doesn't claim she is
"called" to ministry but she talks like that is what she expects.
Would you be willing to describe Indiana Wesleyan and compare it to other
schools?
My Response: IWU is an activist school. It is good academically but it is
passionate about doing…about getting experience, about putting things
into effect, working in a church, being a part time youth pastor, mentoring
other students, being a big brother—sometimes the doing overshadows
homework even. In that sense IWU is
very [John] Wesley-an: committed to learning but never to the exclusion of
doing. I’d need the other schools to make specific comparisons. The
“spiritual atmosphere” is the thing all the students say they like
best here—and they are right, sometimes I feel like it is one yearlong
Promise-keepers-youth-camp-conference-retreat and I even get weary of all the
spiritual passion at times—I need a few hours where I take a break from
passion. But I can say
this—if I had kids right now (especially headed into ministry) I’d
pay to send them to IWU before sending them free to many other schools. (and one more
thing—don’t let her “decide for herself” on college any
more than you’re letting her “pay it for herself.” Pay together and decide
together—perhaps even proportionately. (one more thing--the loans are her part of paying—as are the
scholarships she gets for her head…so pitch in and pay then participate
in the decision—it is over her head and she might pick a school by some
inane thing like “That fellow was so nice on the tour” or
“Gee that swimming pool was soooooo keen”
or “Wowser I could really see myself sitting at
that fountain.” You don’t want her picking a husband this way do
you?
Q: Creationism
Just wanna say your article on essentials vs. nonessentials in
the Christian faith, was in my opinion, your most important writing. I've been
a Wesleyan all my life and I'm scared to come out of the closet. Not that kind
of coming out, but I've recently moved to an old earth stance of Genesis 1. It
sounds heretical to most Christians so I don't even bring it up at church.
(Don't wanna’ start a fight over
non-essentials.) Could you write an article, playing the devil's advocate like
you always do, and show some insights from both sides of this divisive argument.
My
Response: A few that are on the
larger site might be a start. Start by reading this one by my
son Dave. Then read this one
by me connecting evolution with sanctification
Q: Beyond the clutter to prayer
From: Katy When
you pray and worship alone or possibly in a small group, how do you go about
getting passed the clutter and become honest to God and how do you know when
the real prayer has started? Thank you Sir for all the interesting articles you
have written. God bless you, Katy
My
Response: Only by extended
“centering” do such things come—and few Americans are willing
to give the 15 minutes that takes, including breathing, relaxation and
“meditation type” clearing of the mind. This may be why our prayers are all
about us—we do not take time to center on Christ.
Q: Lost respect for church leadership
…once you
lose respect for church leadership, it is so difficult to get it back. Any suggestions?
My Response: Quit respecting
church leadership—think more about God and less about human leaders. But if you are a person easily hurt and
easily wounded ask yourself if you ought to think more about your own sensitive
nature than this or that leader and their weaknesses.
Q: Real people and columns
FROM GUEST:
Were there any personal stories involved in the writing of the
Calvinist/Wesleyan articles? In other words, stories where you were involved in
leading a person to Christ, and noticed these views working out within the
experience.
My Response: You are
perceptive—NONE of the faith-unfaith Calvinist/Wesleyan articles were
written in “University head-land” --ALL of them are about real
people thinking experiencing real situations that are life-and-death matters of
the soul. Very
perceptive. My sons can
often cite the person or situation to which many columns relates—this is
why my columns have “bite”—they really are about life and not
ivory tower thinking.
Q: Becoming Christian (again)
FROM Guest:
What would you say to the remark that most people who come to Christ from
within a Christian culture are more "going back to their roots" than
they are finding Christ for the first time? In other words, it's much more
likely that a person will become a Christian if it is already part of their
culture. Would you agree/disagree?
My
Response: In general I’d agree but there are prominent
exceptions—perhaps even
Q: End times
FROM GUEST: Are
all of these hurricanes, earthquakes, floods a sign of the end times.
My Response: Yes. They always are and always have been.
Q: Brokenness of people
FROM: Former
Student How
do you handle the brokenness of people? It seems that God has called me to
continue ministering to the broken and bleeding of society. My question is how
do you give this up to God? How do you get filled when you give so much
everyday? I know that this type of compassion is what Christ talked about and
even call us to, but I'm wondering how to get filled or if I ever will? I'm not sure if you understand where I'm coming from
or not.
My Response: All I’d
say is be careful you do not take on the whole burden
of brokenness. Just be a channel of
grace and don’t try to take up the whole burden or it will break
you. Just toss the starfish you
find back into the sea...just do your part. It is
totally hopeless to heal the brokenness of people. It can’t be done. You are taking up a goal that is
impossible to accomplish. Which is why you should take it up. Only hopeless goals are worthy of our
life. Only those things that cannot
be accomplished are worth our investment—win the world to Christ, banish
poverty, heal pain and anguish, end hate and war, bind up the wounded and
broken spirits. See? If it is accomplishable I isn’t
worth your life. Only the impossible goals are worthy of my total investment of
life.
Wesleyan (denomination) questions
Q: Changes in Wesleyan church?
From: theajthomas
If you could change 1 one thing about the theology of the Wesleyan
church, one thing about it's governmental structure, and one thing about the
way it raises up leaders what would they be?
My
Response: RE: Theology: I’d only reorganize the doctrine making clear what
was core and what was less central;
RE: Structure: I’d give the congregation more power in churches
under 75, I’d give the board more power in churches 75-300 and I’d give
the pastoral staff more power in churches over 300 (you didn’t say what
would work—just my changes.
Oh, also I’d invent new kinds of districts which were affinity
groups not based on geography but on other factors like size, mission etc. ,
and the third “one thing” I’d do is have a single GS (which
would make little difference to anything at all but I always like to mention it
to make the GSs nervous every four years which makes
them better GSs) RE: Raising up leaders:
I’d give as much room to the youth movement as I could to do this like
they’ve always done.
Q: Generic Wesleyans?
Is there really
much of a difference between the Wesleyan church of today and the
"other" churches around? I know that the Wesleyan church still is
Armenian in doctrine and still has Entire Sanctification as part of the
doctrine, but really, is the Wesleyan church of today any different that the
local "generic" Christian church in the neighborhood? Do the people
of the Wesleyan church live holy lives anymore? Today, what makes the Wesleyan
church different from any other church? Is the Wesleyan church headed down the
same path as the Methodist church?? Or is it dead?
My Response: Not much. Not too much. Some do. Not much.
Yes—for good and ill. No.
Q: Wesleyan church approach to church Discipline
Please explain
the
My Response: Just order the
Judiciary section of The Discipline of the Wesleyan church and everything you
ask for is carefully laid out there.
Contact the General
Secretary for all this and you’ll have a fun time. If you are an attorney you’ll see
all kinds of provisions for church trials, a thing of the past. Also you may want to ask for the GBA
policy on restoration of ministers—which details various offenses and the
penalties.
Q: Dr. Joe
From: PJ I miss Dr. Joe. Do you think he
will ever return? I can remember sitting in
My
Response: That will be mostly up to Dr. Joe—see my response to the other question
on restoration.
Q: Abuse of authority
If abuse of
authority ever condoned in the
My Response: By all
means. But usually after the abuser
gets over extended they get their head chopped off by the group. However in all churches there are
powerful leaders (lay and ministerial) who are so clever they always keep their
abuse of power just a hair’s breadth short of causing the mob to rise up
and behead them. These are the
powerful people to fear and every denomination—perhaps many local
churches too-have them.
Q: Wesleyan church a cult?
Why should one
not consider the
My Response: It is orthodox
in its doctrine. Does not add non-Christian teachings or writings to this core;
and does not assign inspiration to its human founder.
Q: Merge with Nazarenes?
From: Nasty-rene As you know once in a while
we discuss your columns on www.naznet.com and appreciate your faithful writing
every week, especially on holiness issues. OK here's my question from a Nasty-rene: Do you have a personal position on merger with the
Church of the Nazarene or among the holiness churches?
My
Response: I am very open to negotiations between the two denominations whereby
The Church of the Nazarene and The Wesleyan Church could merge. What would Nazarenes get out of this?
Nazarenes would get a much improved denominational name, far lower
denominational taxes, many more churches over 1000,
less centralized and less heavy-handed leadership, and a greater catholicity of
spirit. What would Wesleyan get? A more centrally located new
headquarters building at the North edge in
____________________________
WHEW! That was one LOOOOOOng
Q&A session—I bet no person read it all—but it was good for me
to think through a few of these things anyway. Thanks for asking—I did my
best to honor your questions and answer as many as I could. Come back next week for a regular
column….I think it is going to be an interesting one! There is no particular thing to
comment on but click here if you want
to say something anyway
Keith Drury
November 15, 2005